So Help Me God: The Founding Fathers and the First Great Battle Over Church and State

by Forrest Church

Book Overview

Today's dispute over the line between church and state (or the lack thereof) is neither the first nor the fiercest in our history. In a revelatory look at our nation's birth, Forrest Church re-creates... This description may be from another edition of this product.

• Format: Hardcover
• Language: English
• ISBN: 0151011850
• ISBN13: 9780151011858
• Release Date: September 2007
• Publisher: Houghton Mifflin
• Length: 530 Pages
• Weight: 1.90 lbs.
• Dimensions: 1.7" x 6.4" x 9.2"

Customer Reviews

Did Washington Really Say These Words?

For those who think the first five presidents were devout Christians, the news is not good. Nor is the news good for those who think the country was non-religious. There was indeed a "culture war" going on and the arguments were not unlike today's insultfest. Also like today, mutual slanders were propagated by the media, the politicians, and the pulpit. Some things never change. * Only Adams was a church-goer all his life. Washington, Jefferson, and Madison attended church when living in the White House, seldom otherwise. Monroe didn't go even when he was President. They all doubted the divinity of Christ but all utilized a semblance of faith when it fit their agenda. From the onset in American politics, religion ended up being manipulated for political gain. * Washington scrupulously avoided the slightest hint of religious favoritism and would not abide any sectarian interference in the affairs of state. By the end of his second term, established church leaders were openly disenchanted with his ambiguous religious posture. He probably did say "So help me God" at his inauguration. * There would have been no Bill of Rights if it weren't for the Danbury Baptists of Connecticut. Madison and others thought a Bill of Rights was redundant but he needed their support for ratification of the Constitution. In exchange, he presented and fought for a Bill of Rights in the new Congress. * The Federalist party (mainly northern) was a coalition between those who wanted a strong federal government and the existing controlling Christian denominations (Presbyterians, Unitarians, Congregationalists, Anglicans). The Democratic/Republican party (mainly southern) was a coalition between those influenced by the European Enlightenment (Jefferson, et al) and the minority sects who were not powerful in any state (Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Jews). * Monroe was secular to the bone, too disinterested in religion to be disrespectful about anyone's cherished beliefs. His administration was the beneficiary of religious peace as the New England Federalist clerics lost their political franchise. States gradually relinquished support and entanglements with their pet denominations and churches doubled their enrollment. Separation of church and state appears to have helped religion flourish. An Epilogue records the last days of each President and reminds us that dying memorably is an art. "Tis well," Washington affirmed, summing up his magnificent life in two tiny words. Monroe held on until July 4, 1831, the 55th anniversary of Independence Day. Unfortunately, Adams and Jefferson had done it first, July 4, 1826. Madison made his quieter exit six days before July 4, 1836. Both sides mentioned in my opening paragraph cherry-pick their data to prove that the colonists and founding fathers were or weren't religious. This book settles the score. As usual, things are not black and white nor even gray - more like black and white paint mixed tog

21st Century P.O.V.

Reviewed by Jamie Driggers Separation of church and state has been a contentious issue on both sides of the discussion for many a year. And both sides use the founding fathers to promote their agenda. One side will contend that the founders were deists at best and couldn't possibly have intended for religion to have any bearing on civil matters while the other side will contend that the founders instituted the separation to protect the religious, not the state. Who is right? And is it as simple as anyone makes it? Forrest Church, author of So Help Me God would contend no, it isn't simple at all. Even the founders contradicted themselves in their words, actions, and policies. For example, Thomas Jefferson, credited for the "wall of separation between church and state," worshiped regularly, while religious freedom and religion itself flourished under James Monroe, credited for being quite secular. In this fascinating and seemingly well-researched book I found much to chew on. There is no cut-and-dried answer, but his gives a lot of evidence. Working chronologically, he discusses George Washington, John Adam, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and James Monroe. Through their policies and private actions and what others--many in a faith--said and did for and against them, we get a taste of how complex the issue really is. If you are interested in the debate over the separation of church and state, this book is a fantastic place to start.

A GREAT READ

I'm a business professor and native South African but thoroughly enjoyed this informative and entertaining look at American history. Church has a clever and accessible style that brings the times and characters to life without sacrificing scholarship (which can be found in abundance). It's much easier to understand today's culture wars when you read how they began. Church is extremely knowledgable on Thomas Jefferson and does a terrific job of incorporating recent findings, including his relationship with Sally Hemings and the question of slavery.

AGE-OLD BATTLE IN THE NEW WORLD

Forrest Church unites history and criticism in a timely, readable, informative and entertaining book about the role our Founding Fathers played in the great debate over separation of church and state. This tale of drama and trauma is rich with American history and the surprises that make for any gripping story - for instance, that the Unitarians, Congregationalists and Episcopalians were in favor of a Christian Nation whereas the Baptists championed the separation of church and state. As a result of being religious outsiders, the Baptists knew that they'd be persecuted if not protected under the newly formed American government. Also, how the War of 1812 nearly resulted in New England seceding from the Union to establish a Christian Commonwealth. A wonderful way with detail (and an enormous amount of research) provides reflections on the players and their time. Regarding the relationship between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson - "Theirs was a friendship between the Red Queen and the Cheshire Cat. At the slightest provocation, Adams shouted, 'Off with their heads'; at the first hint of conflict, Jefferson disappeared until nothing remained but his smile." Rev. Church offers insights on the way in which parallel battles over personal freedom continue today, not only with regard to teaching creationism in schools and allowing commandments in courthouses, but the current struggle over how much liberty must be sacrificed for security. Likewise, Rev. Church points out how wartime has always brought church and state closer together (during the Civil War "in God we trust" first appeared on our money), and in peacetime the two diverge. This cleverly crafted account of our nation's founders grappling with religion is a must read for anyone interested in theology, history, or politics (no coincidence that Rev. Church is the son of Idaho Senator Frank Church). It's not often one can say that a new book about an old debate covers fresh ground, but in addition to that, SO HELP ME GOD serves to inform as well as to warn, successfully fulfilling the task of a steadfast and faithful minister (at the Unitarian Church of All Souls in New York City).

So Help Me God

I found this a very readable and very persuasive book. Forrest Church writes with the passion of a liberal theologian and the insight of a skilled historian. He brings alive the dynamic interplay of religion and politics over the first six presidents of the U.S. Most importantly, he shows us how various presidents shifted outlooks between two poles -- "moral order" and "sacred liberty" -- two concepts which still shape our domestic debate over values to this very day. Church writes this history in an appealingly-inductive way, revealing the personalities of the presidents as well as those around them, and enriching his text with major episodes in these presidencies. The book really gets moving with John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, who clearly represent Church's two poles, but who also emerge as vivid and complex figures in this work. Forrest Church's book makes for a great read and I learned something very important in the process. A winner!